Comments on Anglican Centrist: Vatican Objects to Anglican Women Bishops

I think that this gives the lie to Apostolicae Cur...

2008-07-11T10:47:00.000-07:00

I think that this gives the lie to Apostolicae Curae. If they really thought that Anglican orders were totally null and void, they wouldn't care who we consecrated as Bishops.

True, but it follows from the theological commitme...

2008-07-09T14:29:00.000-07:00

True, but it follows from the theological commitments required by magisterial Roman Catholic Church. Complaining about it simply isn't productive.

I think that part of the problem here is that when we come to theological dialogue, we (and by we I mean everybody involved) are looking for some kind of validation from the other party. I don't think that this is productive past a kind of general "we're all Christians" kine of level. If we really want to understand each other, we have to let go of our desire for validation in order to speak honestly and forthrightly with each other. This means hard words. It also means a presumption of good faith on the part of the participants -- that, for example, when the Roman Catholic Church insists that it alone possesses the fulness of the Church, it isn't trying to offend or condescend, but to tell its understanding of the truth.

Yeah but the attitude from Rome always seems to be...

2008-07-09T13:23:00.000-07:00

Yeah but the attitude from Rome always seems to be that "reconciliation" between Anglicanism and the RCC ultimately means Anglicanism falling back in line with the Pope. It's astoundingly condescending.

Hmmm...I am constantly amazed by Episcopalians who...

2008-07-08T21:53:00.000-07:00

Hmmm...I am constantly amazed by Episcopalians who think that ecumenical "dialogue" means affirming whatever the Episcopal church does! Rome will be Rome -- and proper dialogue means that Rome speaks honestly about what it understands to be the truth. The fact that such statements might not tickle the ears of the more liberal elements of the Episcopal church is sad news -- but there's nothing wrong about it. Lies are wrong. The Episcopal church will be what it is, and the Roman Catholic Church will be what it is -- and there should be respectful communications between the two. But the simple fact is, the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church does not allow for it to view the Episcopal church as an equal insitution. That's clear from the Vatican Council II documents' statements on the nature of the Church. As far as Anglican orders goes -- Anglicanism has a different understanding of priesthood than Catholicism does. For Catholicism to acknowledge this point and simply say "what you call a priest isn't what we call a priest" is no offense -- it's simply truth telling. It may be painful, but it isn't offensive.

I came to adulthood and went to seminary during th...

2008-07-08T20:14:00.000-07:00

I came to adulthood and went to seminary during the Second Vatican Council. Halcyon days! We honestly thought that we would see the reunion of at least Western Catholic Christendom in our lifetime! (And yet there are some who say Satan does not really exist!) I am all in favor of working together as closely as possible with neighboring Roman Catholic parishes. I am all in favor of warm and cooperative relations between our bishops and their Roman Catholic counterparts. But "Rome and Canterbury"? Not so much. (Where shall I begin....?)

Where does Rome get off poking around in our affairs? (Oops. I guess we're not too shy about poking around in their affairs. Never mind!)

The (Anglican) opponents of the ordination of women seem to take the line that this is not a step that can be taken without the consent of the Universal Church. That sounds like code for "until Rome tells us we can." I was greatly distressed to discover that the Statute of Praemunire was repealed in 1967.

Furthermore, then Cardinal Ratzinger declared the ...

2008-07-08T18:12:00.000-07:00

Furthermore, then Cardinal Ratzinger declared the re-afirmation of Leo XIII's bull as having the force of an infallible pronouncement (a statement an RC priest I know called "silly"). Why would they even bother to say anything about women bishops now, unless they are holding out something to recalitrant Anglo-Catholic clergy in the C of E to "come home."

Re: the Vatican's displeasureI've read quite a num...

2008-07-08T12:30:00.000-07:00

Re: the Vatican's displeasure

I've read quite a number of people complaining that this will destroy hopes of "reunion with Rome." Um, why's that necessarily a bad thing? Oh sure, there's a lot about the RCC that I admire, and oddly enough, I actually like the current pope despite disagreeing with a lot of his theological positions. Heck, I'm even getting my Ph.D. in liturgy at Catholic University in DC.

However, call me Protestant (*shudder*), but communion WITH Rome, yes; communion UNDER Rome, never.

Things have not changed (nor, really, did I expect...

2008-07-08T11:17:00.000-07:00

Things have not changed (nor, really, did I expect them to) since John Paul II spoke to the World Council of Churches in 1980 or thereabouts. As I recall, he spoke about the importance of, and the interest of the Roman Church in ecumenical dialogue. "And," he said, more or less, "whenever you're ready to come home, we'll be ready to receive you."