Comments on Anglican Centrist: Beyond Borg, Pagels, Crossan and Spong

I second the motion by Country Parson!

2008-05-03T18:47:00.000-07:00

I second the motion by Country Parson!

How about a focus on several other authors. They a...

2008-04-26T09:06:00.000-07:00

How about a focus on several other authors. They are not as adept at self-promotion but I think they speak directly to important and contemporary theological questions: Luke T. Johnson, N.T. Wright, John Koenig, Leander Keck, John Polkinghorne, and good old H. Richard who is making a comeback,

When you say "they’re of dubious value to the tran...

2008-04-25T01:02:00.000-07:00

When you say "they’re of dubious value to the transformation of disciples of Jesus Christ in the Episcopal Church" it sounds like you mean they are of no value whatsoever in forming Christians.

But then you probably know that's not true; some outside the church are helped by these guys to take a second look or even to come in and worship. It is not as if they are completely worthless.

It is up to the diocese and the parish to be prepared to find those brought in by Borg and Crossan, say, and lead them onto solid ground. Now that would be a task worthy of your typing skills. Borg and Crossan, et al cannot do it all--obviously--but they can easily be turned to strong positive--even evangelical--use.

It's hard to do--very, very hard I know personally--but we should try mightily to hold back on needless assaults on other Christians, and even the material heretics.

One major problem with the Jesus Seminar and folks...

2008-04-21T22:55:00.000-07:00

One major problem with the Jesus Seminar and folks in a similar vein is that they are attempting to answer a question that people of faith, or people seeking faith in God, are not asking. They are trying to answer the question "Can it be factually verified?" Most seekers are asking the question "Is it true?" Two very different questions for two very different audiences.

Well, you'll be glad to know that Spong bores me t...

2008-04-21T16:35:00.000-07:00

Well, you'll be glad to know that Spong bores me to tears and I've never read any of the others. (Oh, except the "Gnostic Gospels," which I found interesting for its history; I didn't know anything about the topic before that.)

And I'm a once-very-hostile-to-Christianity returner-to-the-Church after 35+ years. So apparently these folks are not required re-entry reading for people even in my situation....

I just got finished reading Luke Timothy Johnson's...

2008-04-21T16:08:00.000-07:00

I just got finished reading Luke Timothy Johnson's _The Real Jesus: The Misguided Quest for the Historical Jesus and the Truth of the Traditional Gospels_ and found what he had to say about Spong and Crossan very helpful.

It is telling that in a footnote in The Meaning of...

2008-04-21T10:14:00.000-07:00

It is telling that in a footnote in The Meaning of Jesus, Borg admits that his rejection of the historical factuality of the empty tomb has as much to do with his theological commitment to a noninterventionist god and religious pluralism as it does to historical evidence (p. 268).

It is at least refreshing to have him lay his presuppositions on the table. But, it does not seem any more intellectually satisfying than those who say, "The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it"

As Albert Einstein once said,
“What one calls a fact depends on the theory one brings to it.”

More than anything I find Borg et al boring in their predictability. Their M.O. is to make God, Jesus, and Christianity safe for the intellectual, social, and political prejudices of contemporary American "liberals".

The result is a reduction of the Christian witness to something tame and uninspiring to anyone but those whose prejudices are thus affirmed.

I think that these authors illustrate the truth of...

2008-04-21T05:25:00.000-07:00

I think that these authors illustrate the truth of H. Richard Niebuhr's critique of liberal Protestantism as a religion that propagates "A God without wrath [who] brought men without sin into a kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a cross" [The Kingdom of God in America].

BTW, I hope you don't mind Greg, but I still have posted over at my blog an earlier, fuller version of this piece in all of its glory.

This is a very helpful description of these author...

2008-04-20T18:03:00.000-07:00

This is a very helpful description of these authors, and I think it is generally fair as well. I also have read many of their books, and they were helpful (to a point) as I began to re-engage with the church (luckily, I then turned to Williams, Barth, Bonhoeffer, Augustine, Calvin, Luther and Gutierrez...).

My own wish is that if churches use these authors, they don't stop there, but introduce people to the deeper, richer and "thicker" biblical scholars and theologians...

Peter+

http://santospopsicles.blogspot.com

Wow - I probably would not still be a Christian if...

2008-04-20T17:15:00.000-07:00

Wow - I probably would not still be a Christian if it weren't for these authors. I don't read much Spong these days as he tends to say the same thing in each book but Borg and Crossan have challenged my thinking and shown me that it is okay to have questions and seek answers and still follow Christ. Of course my true conversion after leaving the church for a while was reading Bultmann!